A Soldier's Perspective
The Web’s Leading Military Blog Since 2004
Why Nation Building Is Important
I’m tired of hearing the crap about how we need to bring the troops home because all we’re doing is nation building. They all cry, “what’s so important about nation building? Why do we need to stay the course? We’ve won; bring the troops home.” I’d like to take a few moments to offer an education to those of you asking these questions. They are good ones and deserve answers. But, before you proceed any further, you really need to put your learning hats on and set aside your partisan hoodies.
One of the root causes of terrorism is simple: poverty. Poverty breeds illiteracy. Illiteracy breeds ignorance. Ignorance breeds susceptibility. Susceptibility breeds extremism. Extremism is the motivation for terrorist acts. The reason that most terrorists these days tend to come from Islamic nations is because most Islamic nations tend to be dirt poor. With Saudi Arabia being the main exception, you just don’t see Muslim extremists coming out of places like Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain or Djibouti.
Practically every Islamic extremist is illiterate and unable to read the words of the Koran on his/her own. The only way they are able to hear the word of Allah through Mohammad is through the teachings of a cleric. Most Muslims don’t even own a copy of the Koran because they can’t afford to buy one. But, even if they could, they wouldn’t be able to read it. So, they have to take the word of their extremist clerics who say that Koran is about jihad, killing, revenge, etc. They skip past the peaceful parts and turning the other cheek. Don’t get me wrong; there are violent parts in the Koran just as there are violent parts to the Bible. The key is context. The ignorant and illiterate don’t get context. While I was in Iraq, I picked up every copy of the Koran I found in decimated building or after raids of terrorist safe houses. As I went about my business, I would put these books into the hands of people that had never owned one in their lives. Automatically, I had made a friend. This little act of compassion brought kisses and warm embraces from lukewarm initial impressions.
A second cause of terrorism is a lack of democracy. Practically all terrorists come from either a kingdom, a dictatorship, or a socialist-type government. The purpose of terrorism is to gain attention to a cause when one believes he isn’t being listened to. In Democracies, the government supposedly REPRESENTS the people (no pun against the US intended), so terrorism tends to be non-existent in these cultures, not counting PETA or the ACLU. It’s probably more true that nations that practice true democratic ideals have less “terroristic” tendencies than democracies. When people feel like they have a voice, there is no need to resort to violence.
The problem we face right now is that Islamic teachings are diametrically opposed to the idea of a democracy. Islam is more in line with Socialism than capitalism or democracy. In fact, Islam despises capitalism. It is about the collective and shuns individuality. This is why men all wear similar clothing and facial hair. This is why women are not permitted to show their faces. This is why so many Muslims are kept in poverty. They are to be dependent on the Caliphate for their needs. The individual does not know what is best for them. Allah and the Caliphate does!
So, by building nations, building schools, developing self worth, and giving the people a voice in democracy we are directly combating terrorism. When the populace is educated, they do not need to rely upon extremist clerics to dictate the doctrinal teachings of a peaceful religion. They can read it for themselves and form their own opinions. When they are represented in a government that is comprised of elected officials, the people at least feel like they’re being listened to. Their basic needs are taken care of and they are given the freedom to progress as far as they are capable. They become individually worthy and important.
There are some who think that $10 billion a month doing this sort of thing is a “waste”. I strongly disagree. $10 billion a month is a drop in the bucket to the prospects of a future full of nations breeding hate and dissension. There are some who feel that a Soldier’s life is not worthy of this cause. I would argue it’s exactly what we signed up for. Freedom is priceless. It’s value cannot be measured in blood or bullion. Our nation and our military have learned this lesson and the fact that Nation Building has become part of our doctrine is proof. By building nations, we’re building a future of peace. And educated populace is a peaceful populace. You don’t see any surgeons, lawyers, politicians, or businessmen strapping bombs on their bodies and blowing up checkpoints and recruiting centers, do you?
(31) Readers Comments
Leave a Reply
Fort Hood Soldiers Decorated for Valor
Here is another gallant soldier of the Vietnam era from the Fort Hood
Anatomy of a Military Dating Scam
I have been in contact with a supposedly Army Soldier stationed in Kab
Military Dating Scams (More Nigerian Scammers)
My sister has been talking to a Morrison Lopez for the last 3 months h
Royce Penstinger
First, do both sides a favor, and don’t assume our ignorance, and don’t assume our positions are entrenched in political idealogy.
You would swap the word Christianity for Islamic and exchange Iraq for some of the poorest Rural communities here in America and use the same arguements. Further, in some ways some of your arguements are being used by Pro-Illegal Alien groups to justify 15-25 million illegal aliens invading America,and depressing our wages by some $230 billion dollars per year.
Even agreeing with most of what you say, I differ with your conclusions…Nation Building SHOULD NOT be the job of a Military, should not be the job of our soldiers. More importantly, as much as you and our nation’s Pentagon might not want to hear it, America cannot nor should not afford this war when our own nation’s people are suffering, losing their jobs, their homes and their dignity.
It in some ways comes down to the old Kenny Roger’s song about the Gambler, and knowing when to hold em, knowing when to fold em, and the best you can hope for is to die in your sleep. I and many Americans like me do not believe building a Democratic utopia in Iraq is worth bankrupting America for.
Bennie Muhammad
you got be talking about the muslims in the east,because the muslims in america will chop your damn head off you cracker.you right about one sedt of islamic muslims.what about the nation of islam in america,you cant say we are illiterate,you cant say we cant read,you cant say we are terrorist.they only thing we hate is crackers like you,and wouldn’t give a damn about killing you
CJ
Bennie, based on what you just wrote, I would say you ARE illiterate. I’m not afraid of you dumbass. But, you’re too much of a coward to go anywhere near me cause I’d be the one making a video slitting your throat and pulling your head off for a hood ornament, you punk!
CJ
Royce, I’m not talking about a COMMUNITY here. I’m talking about NATIONS!! There is a vast difference that I would hope even you understand.
Nation building should NOT be the job of our Soldiers, unless our Soldiers are used to destroy a nation! You don’t see us building up Chile or Tanzania do you? No. Our doctrine is strictly related to post-combat responsibilities (ooooh, I said “responsibility”!!) and not willy nilly building of schools.
I don’t assume your ignorance. Your comments speak for themselves, my friend.
MissBirdlegs in AL
Iraq has nothing to do with the bankrupting of America. That is caused by greedy and stupid legislators aiding and abetting their greedy and stupid contributors. The DOD budget is a ridiculously small percentage of the GNP or the National budget. Someone else is making out like a bandit, not the DOD nor Iraq. It’s convenient to blame the war in Iraq for every ill that Americans face, but it’s a very simplistic and not very well researched argument.
Royce Penstinger
The world is a COMMUNITY of nations. Many nations are smaller than many of America’s states…life is relative. If California were a Nation State, it would be, I believe, the fourth largest economy in the world.
What bothers you, the fact that I don’t embrace the mission, or that I don’t buy into the military’s loyalty above all else mentality, don’t buy into never questioning a superior officers orders. Been awhile since I was in the Navy, but seems to me that I remember there being something in the military code of conduct that it is the duty of soldiers NOT TO FOLLOW an unlawful order. Bush lied to take us into this war…from my perspective, his general should have refused then to follow an unlawful order which is what Bush’s orders were if based on a lie, but that is ancient history.
We are there, and now we have to figure out how NOT TO BE THERE. Like the song says, if we stay there will be trouble, and if we go there will be trouble. In short, it’s the same F***ing thing!
I am not talking about building schools, I am talking about rebuilding America. Or don’t you bother reading anything but the Stars and Stripes? Have you looked at the unemployment rates in Michigan lately? GM on the ropes, is closing another plant and laying off 1300 plus Americans while we pour tens of billions of dollars down the drain in Iraq.
Supporting our troops, honoring their sacrifice to America is one thing, supporting a WRONG WAR in the deserts sands quite another. Iraq has $87 Billion in surplus, let them pay for those insurgents that are now on America’s payroll compliments of the American tax payer. Redeploy 40,000 of our troops into Afghanistan before we lose the war we used to be winning, and bring the rest of our Army home.
CJ
No. What bothers me is that you don’t UNDERSTAND the mission. I could care less if you embrace it. Loyalty is not a bad thing to have. I can’t help that you don’t understand loyalty. But, most selfish people wouldn’t.
Many…MANY Soldiers question their officers. I’ve been doing it as long as I’ve been in the military. And now I’m a First Sergeant. The key is to be RIGHT when you do the questioning. We’re a structured organization in which life and death decisions are literally made daily. If you’re told to go right, you go right. Just because disobey the orders YOU want them to, well, it means they don’t get arrested!
Your problem is that since leaving the Navy, you’ve gotten ignorant. It is not MY decision to decide when a war is legal or not. It’s not yours either. That is what the President and Congress decide and they decided that sending us into Iraq was legal. What is ILLEGAL is refusing to deploy to a legal war!! Bush did not lie about anything and I’ve proven that time and time again on this site. I’ll gladly censor any more of your attempts to perpetuate THAT lie on this site. You have your own blog where you can spew that ignorance. Do a search. I’ve addressed it enough here with facts.
I can also tell that you’ve lost a great deal of intelligence since leaving the Navy with your comment about building America. That is not my job. My job is to protect America. I haven’t read the Stars and Stripes since I was a dependent to my Navy father stationed in Japan. Is that what you really want? The military being used to build America? I’m pretty sure you’d fight that much harder than our legitimate mission in Iraq.
Yes, I’ve looked at unemployment in Michigan – a liberally run state, mind you. Seems to me that speaks more than anything else! Ever notice that the top 7 out of 10 states with the highest unemployment rates are liberal states? Also of note is that 10 out of the 11 states with the lowest unemployment rates are conservative states. Funny how that works.
Do a little research when you throw out numbers like $87 billion surplus. Iraq’s year-end surplus for 2008 is expected to be about $30 billion. Combined with the previous 3 years, the surplus is expected to be about $60 billion. This money is being put back into security and infrastructure that we aren’t paying for. The largest part of our costs are personnel, equipment, maintenance, and training. That $87 billion number was thrown out there on a whim and quickly proven incorrect.
The GoI increased its budgets across the board in 2008. A base budget followed by a supplemental passed in August of this year brought the total to $72 billion, a substantial increase from 2007′s $41 billion. The capitol budget which pays for reconstruction projects increased to $21 billion.
These are facts. Wake up.
Royce Penstinger
You say:
“I’ll gladly censor…”
So, you only fight for my freedoms back home as long as I agree with you?
As for my ignorance…they pay you HOW MUCH to risk life and limb?
Not trying to be combative here, but I come from a family rich in serving America. Grandfather (deceased) retired Air Force, a brother in the Marines, a brother that was in the Army (Logistics at Pentagon), and my uncle who did seven tours in Nam. You asked us to be open minded in this thread, should not that be a two way street?
Here is a news flash…you have one position, I have another. If you want me to change my mind, say something to move me, say something to make me BELIEVE that keeping our troops in Iraq, spending $10 plus billion a month is worth it. So far, you have failed miserably. Number one rule of special ops…you have to win their hearts and minds. NEW FLASH, the pentagon is LOSING THAT WAR here at home.
As to your red state/blue state statistics on unemployment. I see that one, and point out that ten of the POOREST states in America are Republican. OUCH! As a First Sergeant, depending on your time in service, you are earning around $3800 a month base base, or around $46,000 a year. Not much for risking your life, barely above the national average, not enough to buy a home in most upper middle class communities. It is what it is.
As a First Sergeant you have at least 8 or more years in, have been indoctrinated now for close to or over a decade to be a yes man, to preach the message you are told to preach. If you are lucky, your gamble will pay off when you retire, collect your pension and start a civilian job. That is your choice, and I respect you for it…it was not my choice. Myself…not into lying to those I am in charge of, not willing to tell them the next hill is worth them risking their life for.
Sorry, but America has lost enough blood in Iraq…over 4000 dead soldiers, and tens of thousands more maimed for life…and for what? This president, this war has almost bankrupted America. If we pulled stakes today, the long term costs of Iraq will run into the TRILLIONS. Those are cold stark realities. We won the war…problem was, George Bush, Donald Rumsfield and the Pentagon tried to fight it on the cheap, and did not have a plan in place for AFTER WE WON, which is why we are STUCK in this quagmire.
You have another post on here about PTSD…something I know a bit about. How disgusting is it that the money is not there to adequately deal with that issue for all of our troops coming back home? How sad is it that we have heroes committing suicide upon their return to the states after fighting for their country because the VA either denies them needed benefits and/or help, or puts them on a waiting list because they don’t have space for them? We have $700 Billion to bailout Wall Street, but don’t have the funds to get soldiers proper mental health treatment…what is wrong with that picture?
I understand the MISSION! I just don’t agree with it!
CJ
Royce, you can say whatever the hell you want. You just won’t say it here. I’m not keeping you from your opinion. I’m keeping you from spreading lies on MY site that I paid for with MY money. Now I realize that to a liberal NOTHING should be mine and that everything should be OURS, but I don’t live in that world. I don’t serve that type of government. I serve the kind of country that allows me the freedom to have my own website and approve what is and is not said on it. Censorship? Only when there are obvious and repeated lies being told. Yes, I’ll censor lies all day long, especially after I’ve already answered them.
I don’t serve for the money. I didn’t join the Army to get rich. I joined the Army to serve my country, not to buy a mansion and live off the interest of my multi-million dollar bank account.
I am open minded. But I am not going to let you continue to spread this crap about “Bush lied” dude! It’s an empty phrase that means nothing! I appreciate your family’s service. I appreciate yours too. But that doesn’t give you the privilege to be uneducated and ignorant about something so simple as “Bush lied”. Even veterans can be idiots. I’m an idiot sometimes too, but respecting someone’s service doesn’t mean kissing their ass when they’re wrong. Vets, myself included, don’t corner the market on the truth. They don’t have all the facts. I’ve been wrong before, but your wrong NOW. The difference between you and me, it seems, is that I publicly admit when I’m wrong. I’m not afraid of being wrong. I learn and grow from it. I make much more than I should make. I live good, there is food on my table, and I have the best job in the world. You can’t put a price tag on my life. The price worthy of my sacrifice is freedom. You won’t gain my favor with money. If I was interested in money, I would have gone to OCS like all my commander’s have pushed me to do.
I don’t care if a state is poor or rich. People choose their own destinies. We live in a country where we can achieve anything we set our minds to. We aren’t confined to poverty. We choose to remain so. It isn’t the responsibility of the rich to bring them up. I barely make ends meet, but I will NEVER take someone else’s money that I didn’t earn. And you’ll find that most conservatives feel the same way.
The only reason we’re losing the war at home is because of people like you beating the defeat drum over and over and over again. How about doing something to shore up support. We’re fighting a media war and Al Qaeda is deeply engaged. Guess what they see? Defeatests like you telling them how they’re winning and we can’t!
I can’t help that you don’t want to hear what I’m saying – which is based on fact, by the way. If you don’t want to accept that, there’s nothing I can do for you.
Yeah, yeah, I’m a yes man. You’re so right. Indoctrinated for the past 14 years. I’m such a complete and utter moron I can’t think for myself. Soldiers are so stupid, the only way they’d stay in the military is because they’re brainwashed. We are the dumbest lot of individuals per capita than any other profession. Good thing too, or who would defend. Definitely not smart people. Just us poor, uneducated troops who have to wear uniforms because we’re too stupid to pick out matching outfits. As a matter of fact, I think I have my quarterly touchless brainwash tomorrow morning. I almost forgot. Well, I’d have to be smart enough to remember to forget. Where is my day planner again… The fact that you say you had to lie to your Sailors speaks volumes about your character. I’ve never lied to my Soldiers! Never. I’ve never sugar-coated anything either. Are you sure you even read this blog?! Every one of my Soldiers knows the link to this site. Anyone that has followed my writing for more than a day knows that I’m no yes man. I’m sorry that you didn’t have the intestinal fortitude to stand up for truth, honor, and integrity but I can’t get you past that. You’ll need to speak to a spiritual advisor about that one. I have a free and clear conscious. I’ve been at the position of attention in front of my commanders’ desks my fair share of the time.
We can agree on one thing. We could have put that $869 billion bailout package to much better use towards our troops. Believe me, the help is there if we seek it out. There is plenty of assistance for PTSD in today’s military. What is not in plentiful supply are troops getting the help they need. And guess what, we’re about to waste ANOTHER $250 billion on irresponsible recipients while our troops continue to fight for their lives. We can agree on that point. I am adamantly against ALL this bailout legislation. Perhaps you noticed.
Royce Penstinger
Unlike you, I have not once in this discussion said you were ignorant or stupid. I did say you were indoctrinated. Anyone who has ever been through Boot Camp has to some degree been indoctrinated…it is a necessary evil. If you want, I can even go through some of my military manuals and tell you where it talks about indoctrination, converting civilians into soldiers. I only point this out, as not fond of having someone put arguements into my mouth that I did not make.
As to the VA having all the money they need, I might suggest you read some of the Senate Sub Committee testimonies on managing expectations. Pick any Congressional District in America and you can find stories of Soldiers who would not have gotten what they needed if it were not for a Congressman interceding on their behalf…example, in my own district a Veteran needed the help of our Congressman to get the grant he was entitled too so that he could pay for his wheel chair ramp.
I like truth, not lies and propaganda. It insults me when the Pentagon gives a company like the Lincoln Group a $100 Million contract to perpetuate propaganda, over in Iraq, and in news stories fed to the media through internet sources back home in America. Don’t tell me I am lying, as I researched the story, had MY FACTS used in a BBC story.
Do I approve of the $700 Billion dollar bailout of Wall Street…hell no. Would I agree to a bailout of Main Street which has been decimated by Wall Streets greed…you betcha!
You have your facts, and I have mine, more than likely from different sources. My guess…bet if we set down over a few beers and compared notes we would find the ultimate truth was somewhere in the middle.
You have a great night.
CJ
But, that’s what it is – ignorance.
Ignorance (noun) – lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
You didn’t have to call me “stupid”. You insinuated that I was stupid by telling me how “indoctrinated” I am. What else am I supposed to think? Are you saying that those who oppose this war are the only ones in the military smart enough to somehow ignore this programming? Are only those that agree with you immune from your attacks on their intelligence?
Like it or not, bro, we’re in a propaganda war. $100 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what we SHOULD spend. This war is more about propaganda than it is the kinetic fight. We don’t want it to be that way. We’d rather just kill them all and be done with it. Unfortunately, the enemy has a vote in every conflict. And they’ve voted for the propaganda war. The key to defeating an insurgency is gaining the public trust.
Telling me that the BBC used some of your information in a report means nothing to me. Where did these “facts” come from? What were they based on? Just because the media publishes something doesn’t make it accurate.
I don’t drink. It dulls the senses and would get in the way of my indoctrination. But, I’d love to compare notes. Could you see past a tool of the government though?
Royce Penstinger
Let’s get one thing clear…I don’t argue or debate with STUPID people, there is no fun in it. I used to own a company…I indoctrinated my employees. Does not matter where you work, what you do, you are in some way, shape or fashion indoctrinated. When I was growing up my Dad used to tell us boys we were punk iron, but he was going to make us into men of steel…he had his expectations, and based on those expectations he indoctrinated us accordingly. From the day we are born we are indoctrinated…perfect example, look at the way we raise our boys into a blue world, and our girls into a pink one. It’s life, its just that the military has refined it down to a fine science.
As to being in a Propaganda War…I am well familiar with that fact…does it mean I should like or accept it? As to where I got my facts on the Lincoln Group…many of them came right off the Pentagon’s own web presense in publically available documents. Sadly, most people just don’t take the time and effort it takes to find them. You want a Propaganda Campaign, just look at the Whole Nuclear Renaissance/GNEP/Nuclear 2010 program that is being sold to the American public in the name of National Security. The fact that one of those commercial/military reactors contributed to or caused my wife’s breast cancer is beside the point, just necessary collateral damage.
Seeing past a tool of the government though…some of my best friends and family members are “government tools”, but I like them anyway, and we just agree to check our agenda’s at the door when we break bread.
As to not drinking…I make a mean iced tea.
brat
I will not interrupt your discussion except to take issue with “this is a war based on lies.” Given the intelligence ALL countries had, at the time, decisions were made. And this after numerous UN resolutions etc etc..
And as a world community, do we sit idly by as Saddam continues to poison and murder Kurds and others? I have seen pictures (I have some of my own) of whole mountains of bones of Saddam’s murdered victims.
Nation building? I keep hearing here that Canada should not be in Afghanistan as a fighting force. Canada is a peacekeeping nation…etc etc.This may be true, however if – while you are building roads and schools and medical centres etc – terrorists who risk losing their murderous hold on whole populations, are trying to kill you as you are freeing the citizens from the grip of fear, then peacekeeping is moot. To keep peace you must first make peace.
I do not have the insights either of you obviously do, but I know what I hear and read from the people. The people of iraq and Afghanistan know why we are there.
Oh and the contractors? I read somewhere they make single digits profit in Iraq. Woooooooohooo.
And if we are in Iraq for oil – how come we pay such prices at the pump?
Sorry to interrupt, CJ. Back to the regularly scheduled programming
And yes, I am posting this in all my usual place and linking to you.
Thank you.
Pingback: Knee Deep in the Hooah! » Why Nation Building is Important
Isaac
Brat,
Thanks man, you typed that so I won’t have to.
Royce,
Hey mate, I come from Singapore, an allied country fighting alongside the US in Afganistan, and your stupid comments are encouraging me to sign up in the Army. I have since applied for Special Forces, and I used to have doubts about signing the dotted line, but with you spouting your [expletive deleted - CJ] here, I am reminded how important FREEDOM is.
CJ,
I don’t know how to do that “trackback” thing, but I’ll rip this essay soon ok?
Mickey
Royce Penstinger: I thank you for your service and the service of your family. God Bless them.
As for you I am so sorry that you are such a bitter and hateful person. I would hate to work for a company that you might own or even manage. I do hope that you are seek help for the mental demons that you seem to be struggling with.
And “Freedom is not Free and does come with a Price”
CJ, Keep up the great work.
bean
hey royce,
take a look at this website. this is pretty much the norm for all liberal democrat controlled cities. look at the ages of the people getting slaughtered here in america. think of the hundreds of billions being spent trying to control this crap and yet it keeps geeting worse. cj is correct. you are ignorant.
its not to late to open your eyes and see what is afoot.
http://baltimorecrime.blogspot.com/
SSgtJ
“my uncle who did seven tours in Nam”
REALLY? I would like to meet this man. How can I get in contact with him?
7 tours … how or why? 7 tours … amazing …
Ryan
Actually Royce, the cost of the war in Iraq isn’t even half a trillion. According to the United States Congressional Research Service, the total cost of the war up to this point is 444.6 billion dollars for the last 66 months. That means the cost of each individual month costs about 6.2 billion dollars and maybe even less. Were already making plans to leave Iraq.
Over the summer, Iraqi officials held a meeting in regards to full transition of the country’s security responsibilities by 2013. Which our military officers found reasonable. Even if we pull out of Iraq in 2013 and not earlier, then the cost wouldn’t even reach a trillion. By 2013, it would be about 3/4′s of a trillion if it sustains the 6.2 billion a month price.
However, it probably won’t and will more likely go down. In addition to that, we’ll probably be out before 2013. After all, the Iraqi official discussions during the summer said start withdrawing in 2011 and be fully out by 2013, but since we are already starting to pull out, we’ll probably be fully out before 2013. Of course, I do not want to give the impression that I don’t think anything can go wrong in the meanwhile. Anything can happen.
Also, we weren’t lied into this war. Repeating this isn’t fun, but there is no other option since you among many rehash this false obfuscation. We had multiple reasons for going into Iraq, and WMD’s was one of them. We were wrong on WMD’s, but we weren’t lied to about it. To top it all off, this was the only reason we were wrong on. Look at the Joint Authorization Resolution for military action in Iraq and tell me what else we got wrong other than WMD’s.
Nothing, we were right that there were terror members in Iraq including members of Al Qeada before we went in there. We were right that they had connections with the Ba’ath government while being there. We were also right about Saddam killing millions of his people, and that he was violating cease fire agreements.
And unlike Saddam’s behavior, ours was not illegal. The Congress made a Joint Resolution for this invasion, which makes it legal here in the U.S., but how about internationally? Saddam was also in violation of the cease fire agreements between his government, and the nations of the U.S., the U.K., and France(who later pulled out). Which made it clear that the U.S. and the U.K. would allow Saddam to stay in power if he complied, which he didn’t although he agreed to. This was an agreement approved by an international community, and since Saddam violated it, it made the extermination of his government by the other party legal internationally.
Overall, your comments are debunked. Maybe we can just agree to disagree as adults. Anyway, thank you for your service as a member of the United States Navy. By the way, that’s were I am going to serve when I get out of school. Just a year and a half more of school and I will be on my way. Take care.
Ryan
We also aren’t in it for oil. I am glad that you brought this up, Royce. This makes this thread the perfect opportunity to put this fallacy to rest.
For starters, none of the contract holders to Iraq’s oil fields are American. In fact, the contracts belong to many countries who didn’t want us in Iraq to begin with, and don’t want us there now.
These oil fields are under the ownership of Russian, Indian, Viet, and Chinese oil businesses(as well as oil businesses of other countries). They hold the contracts, and in fact have purchased these contracts and ultimately the oil reserves before we went into Iraq. This is one of the reasons why they didn’t want Saddam removed from power.
They feared that if we removed Saddam, they wouldn’t get the money that they invested in these oil contracts back. We told them that we had no intention of sabotaging their past economic deals with Iraq, and to show for it we didn’t. Despite the fact that we could have.
Since we removed the government who made these deals, we could have made Iraq’s new government(who is a democracy and biased towards us) redistribute these contracts to people we favored more, but we didn’t. We left these alone and untouched.
If you look at the map of Iraq oil field contract distribution on Judicial Watch’s archives, you’ll notice that these patrons are the same ones from before the war, they are also the same patrons from the previous decade. As for the case of Russia, they’ve been patrons even longer than the rest.
Anyway, it isn’t us who controls the oil fields in Iraq. It’s these holders who do. When they pump the oil and export it, they profit of the sales. When they don’t pump the oil from Iraq’s reserves, they contribute to the increase in price which they profit off of.
Either way, the blood for oil myth can safely be called dead. I posted this link before, and I will post it again for all of you to peruse and rifle through at your delight.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/iraqi-oil-maps.shtml
-Take care everyone, talk to you later.
sue
CJ its a great post and Nation Building is terribly important and has not just started with the Iraq war. That is what our country does. We fix what we broke, after the war. Japan is a perfect example. Germany another.
I too join in thanking your family Mr Penstinger and you too for your service to our country. But in reading your website it seems like you are more a part of that media problem that is perpetuating the misinformation than anything else. You thrive on scandal, you invite gotcha politics and you perpetuate it. Your blog is a cyber National Inquirer and nothing more.
It seems your attacks on CJ are more based on him being something that you have been rebelling against all your life and not really what he stands for. As Mickey said, you should get some help for all that hostility you still have towards your father.
You don’t know CJ sir. If you did, you would know exactly how ridiculous your comments and insults are.
Critical Facts
Hmmm. Did you all rail against W when he vowed in 1999: “no more nation-building”?
I didn’t think so.
Mickey
Sue, Thank you too
Ryan
Critical Facts said;
“Hmmm. Did you all rail against W when he vowed in 1999: “no more nation-building”?
I didn’t think so.”
Are you gonna hold it against our possible future Vice President Joe Biden and rail against him for promoting nation building during the debates?
Despite the fact that he said it was “pointless”, and that he didn’t support it because “it cost too many lives and too much money”. While being interviewed on Chris Matthews’ show Hard Ball.
No, you just set double standards and hold it against the people you disagree with politically.
People can change their minds over time, especially when life changing events which alter your entire perspective on the world occurs(like 9-11-01). And I am not going to rail against Joe Biden for changing his story during the debates as opposed to previous statements(like the one on Chris Matthews’ show).
After all, I am not questioning his integrity or his motives, I am questioning his judgement. Plus, he’s someone I respect.
brat
And btw? IF indeed we are all in Iraq for the oil – one of the biggest lies? How come you haven’t invaded Canada yet? (You all know that the US gets 42% of it’s oil from there?) I keep watching the border but haven’t seen any invading armies marauding from the south..Just a thought from a US “collaborator”.;)
JD
The US military is not designed for nation building. We do not train for nation building. We are trained to fight our nations wars and to win. Nation building is not the business of our military. When we let liberals misuse our military for nation building, we have failed.
Semper Fi and peace…
CJ
No kidding JD. That’s why we’re changing our doctrine!
Ryan
Royce,
I don’t know if you are still reading this thread or if you are even still visiting this web blog. However, I didn’t want to leave you or anyone empty handed when it boils down to my first comment on this thread.
Here is a link to the report that made me say that Saddam had connections with terror groups including ones in the Al Qaeda network, and that fighters from these Al Qaeda groups were in Iraq before Saddam fell.
1.) The first one is the report from March 2008 by the Institute of Defense Analyses. The URL is:
http://a.abcnews.com/images/pdf/Pentagon_Report_V1.pdf.
-This is the report that McClatchy Newspaper tried to spin out of context. However, the authors did not appreciate that, and they felt that the report should be released for the public to scrutinize.
The authors felt that the people would feel differently from how McClatchy felt about the report’s significance. So they decided to make the report available on the internet.
The report actually says that some of the terror groups that had fighters in Iraq during Saddam’s reign as well as connections with his Ba’ath government include; EIJ, Army of Mohammed, and Hekmatyar Gulbuddin.
These terror groups had fighters in Iraq and connections with the Ba’ath government up till Saddam’s fall. For the record, these terror groups are a part of the Al Qaeda network.
By the way, there were I.D.A. reports in the years: 2002 and 2003, they had the same information as the above paragraph. So, their research remains consistent in the 2002, 2003, and 2008 I.D.A. reports.
Anyway, again thanks for your service as well as your family’s Royce. Take care.
Isaac
JD,
Ok, this is horribly disturbing, why am I agreeing with him on this one?
Of course CJ, I agree with you too on “changing doctrine”.
bhouse
Nation building is extremely important to gain stability and peace in the region.
Ryan
CJ,
Is foreign internal defense considered a part of nation building?