A Soldier's Perspective
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Camp Liberty Tragedy
Anderson asked a brilliant question (add sarcastic, ironic tone here) on a completely unrelated post:
What does this website have to say about the tragedy at Camp “Liberty” today, and what it reflects about the mental health affairs of over deployed soldiers? Why would kids want to join such an organization today?
Anderson, that’s an excellent question. While we’re at it, though, let’s use your logic and apply it across the full spectrum of the United States to ensure that kids don’t join other “such organizations” that will get them killed.
In April 2007, approximately 30 people were killed at Virginia Tech. All kids should stop going to that college immediately. Keep kids out of college and don’t let them get jobs as professors.
A few months ago, 11 people were killed by a stressed out redneck near Geneva, AL. Kids should move away to avoid further attacks. Kids should not become unemployed rednecks.
A high school student on an Indian reservation in Minnesota went on a shooting spree that killed seven people at Red Lake High School. Kids should stop going to school and immediately get jobs fluffing pillows where it’s safer. Same with Columbine, where 13 students were killed. Kids should not become teachers either.
The day before Valentine’s Day in 2007, a trench coat-clad gunman killed five people and wounded four at a shopping mall in Salt Lake City. Kids should stay away from these dangerous, stressful places at all costs. They can buy their clothes and CDs online and meet their friends virtually! Kids should not get jobs in malls.
In January 2006, seven people were killed in a shooting spree at a post office near the University of California. Kids should not be allowed to grow up to be postal workers either.
13 people have been killed in just the past five months in Salinas, California. In just the past week, three people were murdered within a 5-mile radius in Los Angeles. 97 have been killed since January 01. It’s safer to go to COMBAT than to live on the streets in L.A.! But even Los Angeles is safer than New York with a murder rate of 133 since the beginning of the year. Chicago has reached 117, Philadelphia-94, Houston more than 66, Phoenix more than 38, Las Vegas – 32, Washington, D.C. – 39, and New Orleans at least 41. In just those nine cities, more than 680 people have lost their lives IN THIS COUNTRY!! And we’re not at war ass munch! Why would we raise kids in these cities? Get them out of there!
Guess how many honorable troops have been killed, either at the hands of the enemy or this punk butt-monkey who killed 5 of my brothers?! I’m sure you’ve got the number memorized, you bean counting ass clown. But just for the benefit of the rest of my readers, the number is 74. We safer living in the entire country of Iraq than the nearly four AMERICAN cities I just listed. And you sit on your plush computer chair with your haughty attitude coming in my house to complain about some mentally deranged lunatic that probably came from your hometown that killed five noble warriors! Give me a break!
You don’t care, so why do you even feign to bring up the conversation? What do I have to say about the Camp Liberty killings? The same thing I said on my Twitter page (maybe you should follow me if you want a real education – #cjgrisham): That person should be executed by a firing squad of the troops in that unit if he is found guilty. And he should continue getting shot until his body stops twitching. That’s how I feel about it now, and that’s how I felt about it when Hasan Akbar killed one Soldier and wounded a dozen other Screaming Eagles of the 101st Airborne Division with grenades at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait in March 2003.
Any other bright questions, genius?
It’s a tragedy what happened today at Camp Liberty. But, to blame the military and our profession on one idiot who was probably breast fed until he was old enough to join the Army is absurd. No one wants their child, brother, sister, uncle, father or mother killed by the enemy, so it’s worse when it’s one of our own. Thankfully, it doesn’t happen often. What we should be focusing on are those heroes that subdued the Soldier that killed these heroes before he could kill more! What do you have to say about them? At least in the Army, there are people to my left and right willing to step in front of a bullet for me. Can’t the same about your work place, I bet.
And I’m going to go out on a limb here, but I don’t think it’s a far-fetched idea to think that there are people planted in our military that joined merely to make headlines and give the military a black eye. I don’t put that past the anti-war ideologues in the least bit. Now, let’s get this guy a trial so we can make swiss cheese out of him in retaliation and cleanse the gene pool of retarded morons.
* Reminder: Read my disclaimer if you don’t like what I have to say here!
(49) Readers Comments
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[UPDATE] The "Face" of Military Dating Scams - The Wall of Shame
Dewayna, the problem is that you helped him tighten up his story for t
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I was checking out a dating site for kicks. A guy pinged me saying he
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yes iam too a stupid victim to the nigerian money scam im from austral
BPT (Australia)
Great response to an age old liberal question. Are American lefties that dumb?
CJ
Actually they’re dumber. At least this guy spelled everything correctly.
BPT (Australia)
That’s funny. As Ann Coulter says, “In general Hollywood actors don’t know any facts – but they are 100 percent committed!†George Clooney is a very special case, or as sharp as my pillow.
BrokeSnake
And we shall continue to serve, no matter what happens…
CJ
Amen to that!
Greta
Bravo!
Leta
VERY well done friend.
Keeping those who died at the hands of this disgusting excuse for a human in my prayers.
Mackie
Very well said CJ!
brandon
I agree with many of the stamements above.The individual was rather demeaning in his language. The fact is.. that the combat stress units do a professional job. I personally had to escort an individual to trial for intentionally shooting himself in the foot. The fact that certain instances do occur on the battlefield that do require attention of military health professsionals; it is the brutal reality of this type of warfare. The sickening nature of one individual to intend and perform acts of violece on his fellow comrades is disheartening. I am sure he will be afforded the proper military trial covered by UCMJ.
Donna
Well said CJ ! My prayers go out to the families of those killed today in this tragedy!
Kevin Graves
Hey CJ…well said. My son joined the Army because he believed in this country that so many try and trash. On 25 Jul 06 he paid the ultimate sacrifice in an ambush on the Baghdad Highway. I am extremely proud of him and all his brothers. Check out the great story CJ wrote about Joey on the ‘They Have Names’ link above – SPC Joseph A. Graves. God bless you CJ.
CJ
Kevin, stay tuned to They Have Names. We’re working on a complete relaunch with a much better format and graphics. I apologize for letting it slip for the past few months.
For everyone else, here is the link to Joseph’s story: http://www.theyhavenames.com/index.php?item=joey.graves
alias
Great response. My spouse works in the clinic that got shot up today by a lost and @##ked up soldier, and we wait to find out who was hit and killed from our small combat stress control family. The worst part is relying on the media for the news here stateside. Hardest thing in the world is not knowing. I would “ruck-up” any day rather than sitting here waiting for the news or phone to ring. It chaps my @ss to read the writings and whims of passive sheep, which have never sacrificed more than a few hours away from their poetry readings and herbal tea. Two days in a third world county can rectify even the most self-entitled spoiled liberal that keeps giving up our collective freedoms in exchange for a government to think for them.
DanNY
IAVA Exec. Dir. Reickhoff takes shot at Vietnam Veterans in discussing Camp Liberty tragedy:
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmay09/nf051209-4.htm
Pretty good analysis of IAVA strategy.
Mike
Reminds me of the logic used to issue travel warnings for going to Israel…Death/crime rate is much more dangerous in our cities than Israel per population/geographical size…but no travel warnings come out saying to avoid our dangerous cities.
Sunshine
CJ,
I loved your usage of Ass Munch. Well said, my friend. Only you can make us laugh while also making our blood boil!
Thanks for saying what needs to be said!
Sunni
NY-David
Well spoken, CJ! Some of us “old school” liberals actually have brains and wholeheartedly support the troops and their mission. While I’ve remarked in the past my concerns about how it started and reasons behind it, the country owes it to wholely support the troops and get them the heck home.
NY-David
GunnNutt
I like it when you get on your high horse, CJ. You’ve got a great view from up there!
Anderson
CJ. You’re getting a lot of pats on the back. But the shooter’s father feels very differently.
Anderson
CJ
And I empathize with his father. I empathize with the troop that did the shooting. But, you don’t go around killing other troops and expect to get off free.
SSgtJ
CJ, They say this is a 44-year-old Army Sgt. John M. Russell who has spent very little of his 18 years in the Army stationed or living in the US.
Question, how could he have spent the last 10-15 years in Germany?
Anderson
And I do have one other question. How do you feel about moral conduct waivers?
CJ
My personal opinion about moral waivers is that they should be used sparingly, whenever possible. People deserve second chances and there are many successful Soldiers that came onto active duty on moral waivers. They overcame their issues and became outstanding public servants. What do you think about moral waivers?
NY-David
I went through basic with a guy on waivers and it seemed to turn his life around.
NY-David
Jessdawn
Do some checking on the moral wavier. He was arrested for possession of alcohol, as he was underage at the time. I do not think there are too many people around that have not tried alcohol before being 21. This is not a good assessment that this kid was going to become a monster.
For Russell to stay in Germany so long would have to be at the request of the soldier. Also, he has been in since the active Army since 1994 I am sure that he reenlisted, volunteering again to be a soldier.
As for his father, there were many more victims than the five that died, his father being one of them. His father just a little while ago had a son that he could be proud of, and then this happened, of course, any parent would try to rationalize that it is not their son’s fault. I would probably do the same for my kids, but it does not mean that his assessment is right. Russell’s chain of command obviously knew something was wrong and tried to provide help to Russell.
Being a solder is stressful, so is being a cop or a doctor. In the style of CJ, quick pull all the cops off the streets, they might get stressed out and do something wrong.
Jessdawn
Sorry I put that comment in the wrong place.
Anderson
They scare me. Especially knowing that Steven Green received one. I think they point to the larger problem of lowered recruiting standards coupled with over deployment and the mental stress of an unjust war.
SSgtJ
Anderson said “the mental stress of an unjust war”. Anderson, do you think that what are troops are doing now is unjust?
CJ
Steven Green received his “waiver” in the 90′s if he received one at all, PRIOR to our “recruiting problems.” Where has it been released that he ever DID receive a waiver, or is this just your continued attempt to dishonor our Soldiers? If you don’t have back up for this claim, that may very well be your last comment. And if he WAS given a waiver and you can prove it, maybe we should blame the administration in power at the time his waiver was allowed?
Anderson
Steven Green’s waiver discussed here- http://www.slate.com/id/2161764/pagenum/all/ , as well as in about 100 other stories you can find by simple google search using the words “Steven Dale Green moral conduct waiver Army policy backwards hypocrisy”. As for your veiled threat to block further posts of mine, I’ve wasted enough of my time here. The truth is obvious. I’ve led this horse to water. I can’t make it drink. Or don’t care to make it, at least.
Anderson
How about not trying to blame any administration? Blame USAAC and the Pentagon instead.
CJ
Wow! I think that link got all of 1 1/2 sentences about Green! You really showed me. What an OASIS OF WATER you’ve led me to. Instead of defending yourself, you link to a rant about gays in the military.
But, after looking into it I realized the slight of hand trick you did in bringing Steven Green into this. I was still talking about the subject of this post and then you went way off topic. So, when you brought up Green my mind was still on Russell. But, since you couldn’t answer for that, you switched topics on me, you sly fox you.
For the record, I don’t make veiled threats about booting people. I’m pretty open with them. But, since my threat was a misunderstanding of your A.D.D., I withdraw it for now.
What do you have to say about the troops that commit crimes on active duty that did NOT get waivers to enlist? And what do you have to say about those that got moral waivers and have NOT committed any crimes on active duty (which happens to be the great majority of moral waivers)?
Anderson
To label all actions of all troops as unjust is not reasonable. Certainly there are countless unjust acts committed by U.S. troops at war; ranging from things as deplorable as what Steven Green did to a teenage Iraqi girl and her family, to the looting of Iraqi artifacts and treasures such as the Iraqi weapons found at Ft. Lewis, WA recently. The bribery and corruption by senior Army officials involved in reconstruction contracts falls somewhere in the middle of the previous 2 examples on a scale of abhorrence. But the instances are too many to dissect each one. The wars themselves are without question extremely unjust, and violate international law. I think many U.S. troops are probably silently terrified to read stories such as that of John Demjanjuk, a story which is still in the headlines today; and proves that there is no statute of limitation on war crimes. The last decision a young soldier today makes, fully of his or her own accord, is in joining an Army involved in these crimes. The rest is just orders, pre-existing tendencies toward immoral behavior and the effects of being sent to fight an unjust war.
SSgtJ
Just trying to understand, are you saying that this man murdered these people because he was forced to fight in an unjust war?
Anderson
That’s not really your question, is it? I mean, that’s pretty much Deflection 101- at a junior college. You’re not going there on comment 3, are you? If so, just say so. And I’ll attempt to answer that, again.
Anderson
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/join_the_army_or_go_to_jail/
SSgtJ
Do you always look for a hiden meaning in everything?
Talk about deflection …
CJ
Anderson doesn’t have an opinion that he can defend. As a Liberal, he’s required to resort to the Kool-aide factory for his answers and arguments.
Anderson
Kool-Aid recipes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/16/us-military-veterans-iraq-murder-violence
CJ
So, Mr. Kool-Aide drinker, I’m confused. If the “horrors and stresses” of Iraq caused this individual to kill Soldiers in Iraq, why isn’t EVERY Soldier going on this rampages? Why haven’t I gone on a killing spree? Why haven’t any of my fellow combat veterans chosen murder to deal with these “horrors and stresses”?
Yup, not only did you follow the recipe, you’ve tried every flavor available. And you still haven’t answered my questions.
Anderson
You haven’t asked any reasonable questions. You have only asked me to confirm your sarcastic, rhetorical and absolute stereotypes, which is of course ridiculous. I suppose by your logic that just because not every soldier is a murderer, that the U.S. Army is infallible? Can you also name for me any other organization, besides the military, that is better for not being questioned or held accountable? I really just stopped in here to see how much you and other right wing soldiers really support one another when the chips are down. I’ve gotten my answer from the posts you and your sidekick SSgtJ posted. And I’m not surprised. My years of working around the Army as a civilian on their marketing team introduced me to the hypocrisy of the Army’s words vs. their actions long ago. But I got out by late ’07 and have been trying to reverse the trends and misinformation campaigns ever since. So the way that your forum’s members did an about-face on a fellow brother is exactly what I expected, and exactly what kids should know about LDRSHIP and Army Strong. They are just nonsensical tag lines, like “It gives you wings” for Red Bull or “Chicken of the Sea” for Starkist. They don’t really mean anything. But buying into the Army’s tag lines can give you more than an energy burst or tuna breath. It can give you a situation where you offered everything and were then shown nothing in return. A club where human mental stress is weakness and leadership is blind ideology and thoughtless support of antiquated structure. Thanks for the fodder. This conversation will be included in the flyers our group will be handing out in SoCal high schools next week. And I think your words will help us keep a kid or two from making an ill advised life decision. Peace.
Anderson
PR@CAMMMO.org
btw- the best Kool-Aid I’ve ever had was at my mini BCT course at Ft. Jackson, SC. I swear they were putting drugs in that stuff. It was delicious washing down my carcinogen riddled MREs- Blech!!!
CJ
I appreciate the surprising honestly that you indeed have absolutely NO idea what our military is about. Your broad brushes of Army leadership speak volumes about your ignorance of the most noble – yet fallible – institution in the country. You said I didn’t ask you any questions. Since you’re selective illiteracy seems to have gotten the best of you, allow me to reiterate:
“What do you have to say about the troops that commit crimes on active duty that did NOT get waivers to enlist? And what do you have to say about those that got moral waivers and have NOT committed any crimes on active duty (which happens to be the great majority of moral waivers)?”
Let’s see you answer those quite simple questions.
Your putrid tone towards our military speaks volumes about your true intent here. It isn’t to highlight some random fallibilities, but to contribute to as much damage as possible of our reputation. I’ve attacked Soldiers and defended Soldiers based on their actions on this blog. You’re too narrow minded to take a moment and search through the five years i’ve been writing and have confined your unintelligent opinion based on ONE case, which you are using as a poster child for your efforts at discrediting the military and its leaders. Yet, you know NOTHING about what we have done and how we feel because you aren’t in here. You’re living in a glass house and throwing rocks.
SSgtJ
Anderson, I was straight with you. Guess you had your mind made up before you got here and read what you wanted to read into everything.
Clearly you hate the military and apparently always have. Sounds like you want us to disband the military … should we disband the police and firemen too? There is corruption in those organizations also.
JessDawn
This is where I get a little confused. Russell’s leadership saw that something was wrong and they were taking steps to fix a problem. His weapon was taken away and he was escorted wherever he went. Just become someone gets stressed out they are not going to be on a plane home in a few hours. That is not safe or feasible. Also there will be review, plenty of it. I can imagine that Russell’s commander will be wading through review up to his neck for a long time.
CJ has never been about hiding a problem and not making sure that the persons responsible are held accountable. However, he also has an understanding of what things can do to the troops that are still in country.
Have fun at your little get together with high school students. By the way, your welcome, because kids like me made the “ill advised life decision” and enlisted out of high school quite a few years back, and protected your right to spew hatred.
Funny thing is, when most people thank me for my service I tell them that it is not necessary, but for those that actively use their rights, I feel a little entitled. (at least I know what my faults are)
CJ
Jess was one of those Soldiers that make you shake your head that “this one got away”. We miss her in the military, but she served this nation with honor and has earned the family life she currently enjoys.
This nonsense that the military doesn’t care or does nothing about suicides or issues like this are simply ignorant and uninformed statements.
Terri
Well said CJ, almost as if you were reading my mind when you wrote this. I did my own write up, over at ASM today and of course linked back to yours.
WOTN
The Names have been released and my post on this incident is now closed with Update #3.
I was able to publish a more detailed story of one of the 5 today, a story told by and written by his fellow Soldiers.
Of all the news I post, these are the ones I dislike the most, but it less painful when I have a story to go with the name. That is why the work of CJ and Sue on They Have Names is so important. We should celebrate the lives of the Men and Women who have sacrificed for this Nation, for Democracy, for Freedom, for the US Constitution and the living embodiment of it, the US Flag.
We should celebrate their Victories, their Valor, and their Generosity.
Unlike CJ, I cannot empathize with the criminal in this situation. Perhaps I’m more cold hearted, but I cannot think of any reason for his actions, no excuse, at all. The Soldiers he killed were not his enemy. Some were trying to help him and others were seeking help. Even his worst situation in life did not justify his actions.
SGT Russell, and SGT Russell alone is responsible for his actions, not his mommy, not his daddy, not his recruiter, not his drill sergeant, not the two medical officers he killed, not the privates he killed, not the Soldiers he killed. SGT (soon to be PVT) Russell is accountable for his own actions.
imtherealmccoy
There are a wide range of moral waivers. If you are with your buddy who does something and you decide to take community service instead of going to court you have to get a moral waiver.
That being said. The news stated that this soldier had criminal offenses. It may be that the only reason he was allowed to go in was because it was so long ago. The days of going in the Army to escape trouble are behind us. You would have to know the specifics. Also, the domestic dispute is something that would not be able to waived if it against a child, and may be if against a spouse.
The news also stated that there was a restraining order against the soldier prior to entering the service from being around the child but that it was due to his actions towards the mother.
Moral waivers are a case by case basis. I would say based on his history prior to enlisting and his email to his wife, that he felt like the Army was all he had and felt like it was being taken away from him.
The father tries to state to the media what his son was like but hasn’t lived around his son for a decade, and for 3 deployments and a current marriage. We know how the media says the last one ended. I would say that this would make the father a poor character witness, although a loving father. But unforunately, if the father is more interested in blaming someone else then the son will not be able to rely on the father for the much needed mental help.
I feel for all of the families involved because there is a lot of pain and loss involved. I understand where the father of this soldier is coming from. There is a stigma associated with mental illness; but it does happen, and that means that help, not denial is crucial.
Laurel
Army Shooting Leaves Five Dead, Pressures Congress to Pass H.R. 952 Combat PTSD Act
Related Story Link:
http://blackpoliticalbuzz.blogspot.com/2009/05/army-shootings-leave-five-dead.html